Mamie's Meanderings

A medley of musings in a meandering manner.

Sunday, February 11, 2007

Dawkins Limits His Arguments

Getting into the first couple of chapters of The God Delusion the first thing we find out is that Dawkins does not like to see the word "God" used too broadly. He limits "God" to "supernatural creator." One of my favourite books God in All Worlds, Lucinda Vardy, ed., contains passages from many culturally diverse thinkers and, in these passages, God is understood in countless different ways, "supernatural creator," being one of many.

Secondly, he limits his definition of a religious person by excluding those like Einstein and other scientists who espouse a kind of pantheistic reverence towards the complexity of the universe and awe at the mystery. Dawkins calls these people religious non-believers, but did they call themselves atheists? Rudolph Otto in The Idea of the Holy explains that the religious impulse begins with the sense of wonder, the mysterium tremendum, and myth and ritual begin as responses to the experience in all cultures. Dawkins says the main reason people belong to any religion is simply because their parents did and they were taught to believe as children. I daresay that is so for most believers today, but that doesn't address "why religion?" in the first place. Someone remarked that if there is no God we would have had to invent one. I suppose Dawkins doesn't count as "religion" the spiritual beliefs of aboriginal peoples? How does Gitchi Manitou arise in one culture and Yahweh in another and so on? Karen Armstrong in A History of God begins in a different way: she says human beings have always looked for a system that gives meaning and value to life and most cultures have sensed something beyond ourselves, commonly known as the divine or the sacred. Thus, the idea of God is what exists, a word that attempts to describe what is beyond words, beyond thought, not definable. Armstrong notes "people dubbed atheists deny a particular conception fo the divine." The particular conception, the "delusion" according to Dawkins is that "there exists a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us."

Dawkins tells us that he is attacking everything supernatural, from fairies at the bottom of the garden to God. There is nothing that is not purely physical in the universe, and that cannot be explained naturally (given, of course, that there is much that hasn't been explained yet). I am looking forward to reading this book from a science perspective but I also recognize myth, symbol, metaphor, creative imagination, the non-rational (not irrational), art, aesthetics and so on as other ways of knowing.

5 Comments:

  • At 11:24 PM, Blogger bill said…

    Mamie,

    I read and enjoyed your post regarding religion and the divine being.

    Since my early 30's (I'm now mid 50's), I have been trying to reconcile my early religious upbringing (Southern Baptist) against the unbelievable (at least unverifiable) claims of the Bible and the hatred, bigotry, and destruction so evident in the now and historical Christian faith.

    I ran across Karen Armstrom about 10 years ago when I read her book 'The History of God'. What I liked about her was her willingness to state facts and not advocate nor deny religion.

    I have since read many of her other books including 'Buddah', 'Islam', 'The Spiral Staircase', and 'The Great Transformation'. In each book I found her to be someone that was willing to make definite statements about the verified happenings in history. And, when it couldn't be verified, she made an even-handed conjecture about what were the possibile events, and even made a good guess at which of these were the probable event.

    Over the last decade, I have grown to hold Ms. Armstrong in high regard. I felt as if she was finally giving me something concrete that I could hold on to while I delved into the things that couldn't be proven; but must either be believed, or not.

    Also, during that time, I began to do more in-depth readings - many times based on a reference she made. What I have discovered is that all the ground she is covering now has been covered before - in just as great of detail and in some cases more lucidly.

    I started with Will Durant and 'The Lessons of History'. Next came Toneybee's 'A Study of History'; then H.G. Wells' 'The Outline of History'. I'm currently reading Ernest Renan's 'The History of the Origins of Christianity' (seven books written between the years 1867 and 1882) and Conybeare's 'The Origins of Christianity' (published in 1909).

    What I found is that Ms. Armstrong is an excellent re-packager; and I do love her story telling. Still, all that she is covering has already been covered in great detail.

    My focus is on the Christian religion itself. What, if any, part of it is true? I find that the best way to tackle a large problem is to determine those facts that can be confirmed. Then, all that is left is to work on the un-known to see how it might fit into the framework of the already proven.

    What I see is that the Christianity of today is not the teachings and commandments of Jesus. Rather, Christianity today is the fabrication of Paul, cut from whole cloth, with the Spiritual Jesus (not Jesus the man) acting as a back drop.

    This leaves me with the paradoxial question, "If Jesus were to come back to earth today, would he be a Christian?" I think not. The historical Jesus was a Jew and believed that he was to fulfill the Jewish law. He had no place in his vision for anything but the Jewish religion.

    I am sure that, in the realm of 'mankind and religion' there are much greater questions than the narrowly focused questin of Christianity. And, it is my hope that, someday in the distant future, I will be in a position to wonder about, and explore, them. For now, I'm just trying to get a grip on what is the true essence of Christianity and is it something that is worthy of devoting a lifetime, and eternity, for.

    Again, thanks for sharing your thoughs. I thought there were well researched and well written.

    Cheers

    Bill

     
  • At 11:27 AM, Blogger mamie said…

    Bill,

    Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments. I agree with you that we need to go back to the beginnings of Christianity and take a sort of "bottom up" instead of "top down" approach in order to find out what was there at the beginning and to trace how early practices and beliefs later developed into creeds and dogmas. What of early Christianity has been retained? what is still with us? How did the "Jesus of history" become the "Christ of faith"? What "truth" shall we find in Christianity?

    I'm not sure that there is much of Jesus' history that can be verified as fact. I think that perhaps all we will be able to say in the end of our research is that 'something happened' to a group of his followers: they were convinced that he was still somehow around or with them after his death; how this was so - whether as 'spirit' or however they had these experiences, just as many people today still feel he is somehow still present. Literal - empty tomb? resurrection? I don't think any of that can be proven.

    Personally, I believe we will find that the truth in Christianity may be very similar to the truth found in all the world's religions.


    "Mamie"

     
  • At 11:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect" always struck me as a tall order, setting one up for a sense of failure and guilt, negative feeligs that should be discouraged. Live with your imperfections and work with them. To try to be perfect seems quite egotistical.
    Gos is just....so I was taught. Someone said to me "If God is just, then he's one mean son-of-a bitch. How could God bear to see even one child raped, tortured, murdered....and it's happening as we speak. If he is all-powerful, then can he be all-loving. And vice-versa. The mystery of our being in this enormous cosmos would tend to lead all cultures to try to explain the unexplainable and come up with a creator. For the evil, there are the demonic forces or "the devil". Personally, I don't see many people leading the "Jesus life", living for the "other" without much concern for personal pleasures and comforts. Maybe I'm being cynical....I don't know. But I only know I question a lot, and it's good to question. It's also good, Mamie, to share with you and to read your very thoughtful comments. Thanks for sharing.

     
  • At 4:52 PM, Blogger mamie said…

    Hi Mulberry,
    Good to have you checking in again. You do ask the big questions! I think the only possible answer that "the theologians" (that much maligned group by Dawkins :))have come up with is "free will" and that is what allows us to pick or choose good or evil. At our best, that is, most truly human, we will choose the good. I always ponder the words of a prof I had in a theology course: "Where was God at Auschwitz? The question must be rephrased 'where was man'?"

     
  • At 8:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Mamie, I wonder also about "free will". Do we choose to be born? Do we choose our parents, religious training, genetic makeup, environment and so on? At what point is our will "free"? As one priest, now bishop, once said to me "Any of us are capable of committing any crime, given the right circumstances?
    If God is all-loving, would he not have put an end to humanity long ago, in the light of the unspeakable atrocities and horrors, the sheer magnitude of the suffering and devastation? Is it because he is not all-powerful? I ca't see that he is a personal god who intervenes in human affairs. Then who is he? surely not the vengeful, exacting jealous god of the Old Testament or the wrathful god who stands in judgment of our every act, knowing and keeping track of our thoughts, words, actions, sufferings etc. I have a hard time believing that there is someone who created me and loves me unconditionally and "holds me in the palm of his hand". If one could believe that,as I once did in my limited way, then it could be comforting and give one hope. But now I view it [meaning such a belief] as raising false hope. I can hope for good things but I believe I would be deluded to think that there will be divine intervention on my behalf. My position, at this point, is one of agnosticism. It's been growing for some time, with a lot of discomfort, but now seems just part of my belief system.

     

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